Are most people's collections really that small?? I can't fit everything I have on the 60Gb Zen Vision:M I have, and all the new players that come out are in the pathetic 8-32Gb range. iPod is not an option, so I'm left only with the enormous Archos or Cowons to choose from. Something the size of the X-Fi, with a bigger screen than the Vision:M, but at least a 60Gb HD is what I need.

Patrick - is the iPod not an option due to a dislike of Apple/iPod/iTunes, or is it really not an option for some other reason? I'm sure the 160gb iPod Classic would suit otherwise.

Far inferior sound quality to Creative. I got the second gen Shuffle and it is like listening through cotton wool. Even with Sennheisers. Felt so dirty the day I bought it. Only did it because it came down to £32 and it has the nice clip - only use it at the gym. I hate the whole bloated, stupidly overpriced, buy-buy-buy! iTunes experience and will never in my life buy anything from them. (e-music is great!). I even use a Python script to manage the Shuffle - so iTunes never needs to blight my eyes. Also, throw in iPod's restrictions on file formats, especially video - which is why the classic iPod is no good either, I need video. And I've become pretty anti-Apple over time. They are no longer the plucky little outsider, and are just as bad as MS, etc. for crapping over their customers, while their fans seem happy to obliviously lap it up. Being thought of as an 'apple fan' if anyone sees me with one of their products makes me shudder :)