When I go on a rampage I'll blame it on a game, as I'm obviously not responsible for my own actions.

More like "Teens blame GTA in the hopes of getting off scott-free by blaming their idiotic behaviour on a game".

but there's a reason the game has an 18 certificate.

I learned how to make Molotovs the old fashioned way, a book. GTA IV does not have any tutorials on this and it seems this is all a load more FUD to try to either make GTA IV the scapegoat for all the world evil or it's a cunning ploy by the kids in question to absolve themselves of the responsibility and pass the buck to the video games industry. The bible bashers of middle america will love this because they can blame all their woes on Rock Star rather than taking responsibility for their poor parenting.

Poor little tykes. Let astray by the Evil PC Gaming Corporations!

I learnt about Molotovs studying WW2 in History, should we ban that instead?

this is just showing a worrying trend for scum bag's to do something bad get caught and blame GTA because the media love to go on an anti-gta warpath.

Never mind the fact the game doesnt teach you to make petrol bomb's, never mind the fact actual contruction of petrol bomb's is depicted in many TV shows, movies, book's or who know's even just plain creativity.

No its all GTA aparently. So if GTA never exisited these kids wouldnt know anything about petrol bomb's or even if they did they certainly wouldn't know how to make the. Right what ever.

Never mind the fact that these kid’s were in a gang, you know those lovely group of guy’s who help old grannies, wash your car and don’t kill each other in the streets oh wait that the boy scouts.

Lock the Scum bags up with the pedo's, file shares, and murder's and throw away the key.

Of course they were going to say that.

There has been so much propaganda by tree-hugging lefties each time these games come out about the "somebody think of the children" aspects of the game, that when these little shits go bad, of course they're going to be sneaky enough to do it under the guise that "the big bad game that everyone is saying will send kids bad sent us bad, so it's the games fault not ours"

They claim that they learnt how to make molotovs in-game. Well, I've played a good number of the GTA series from original to latest, and unless I've missed something (as pointed out) there are no "build your own" sections of the game (other than taking truck to guy who'll rig it with semtex).

But of course, the media are clammering for these stories, so everyone wins (except the car owners): the media get their "we told you so" story, the kids get to be bad with a ready-made excuse, the lefties get their extra nail in the coffin of freedom (ironic really, that the socialists want to put so many dictatorial controls on us).

Here's the newsflash though. Molotov cocktails existed before GTA. Search for Molotov Cocktail online and I bet there are hundreds of sites with recipe lists (am not gonna confirm that while sat at work tho!).

Oh, and kids were bad more than 10 years ago (i.e. pre-GTA).

Back to blaming internet, television, witches, false gods and having 5-knuckle shuffles for all the evil and suffering in the world, then.

We used to just go around chainsawing people to death. We had a choice of blaming Doom or Texas Chainsaw massacre, whichever one was in most disfavour at the time.

These days it's all GTA GTA GTA, where has all the choice gone?

Who should be held accountable for letting their underage children play an 18 cert game.

...these people are clearly unhinged to begin with. GTA4 is an easy target to pin the blame on. In the 1980s we blamed the movies, and now we blame GTA4.

I play this game frequently, and I have no desire to torch cars, or take out pedestrians with a handgun.

How about authorities tackle the route cause instead of banning a legitimate (and somewhat fun) product.

Paris, because she enjoys cocktails - just not Molotovs...

They presumably thought that blaming the game would get them some sort of leniency. I doubt it will work.

Just add it to the list of pointless pleas in mitigation:

The devil made me do it.

God made me do it.

Society made me do it.

GTA made me do it.

I'd say it was always best to stick with the good old "The voices told me to do it. Mwah hah hah hah! Wibble. Sorry Mrs. Brown there's a gnome in the custard factory."

lock em up forever - if your excuse is "a video game showed me how to do it" then you arent fit to be in society and should be deemed as a dangerous psycho.

what is they watched a film like hostel... would they go off torturing people for fun?

what if they saw a ww2 film... would they want to invade poland?

what if they saw a french ww2 film... would they instantly surrender at every available opportunity? lol

im sick of people using any escuse to try and get away with whatever they do. im sure all this has come from americas litergation nation philosophy. if i trip over some water in a shop its my fault for not looking where im going... not the shop.

and yes, as mentioned above the game doesnt who you how to make molys - just where to find them and an ability to throw them

people need to take account of their own actions. its a pity none of our politicians can do this though - not leading by example are they?

I remember using Molotov cocktails (napalm) in the classic 2D game Worms, I suppose that'll make me want to ninja rope around in real life before dropping banana bombs on unsuspecting people.

I remember 'experimenting'* with petrol bombs when I was about those kids ages.

This was way before GTA mind-you, should I blame it on Horrace Goes Skiing instead?

*- Though we were very careful to never damage anyone's property.

I mean it couldn't possibly be the fault of the parents that bought their under age child the 18+ game ?? Any child/minor that blames their violence on a video game should be ignored, as they shouldn't have been playing that game in the first place. Its the parents responsibility to make sure that their children are playing games that are suitable for them.

If the parent is unsure about a games content then they need to play it themselves before letting the child see/play it. If the child is not responsible enough to realise that a game shouldn't be copied in real life then they shouldn't be playing that game.

I wonder if these same parents let their children watch Jackass or similar and then wonder why they break their limbs jumping out of trees, MTV get away with putting a 'do not copy' disclaimer on that show.. Surely the 18+ certification on the video game should do the same thing ?

The onus should be on the parents to be more responsible for what their children are doing, and also on the computer game shops to sell rated games only to people of the correct age.

It should be treated the same as alcohol if this carries on, that a shop keeper cannot sell a game to a person under the age limit of the game, and cannot sell it to a parent if they suspect that it will be played by someone under that age limit.

Game manufacturers are doing everything possible to make sure games are played by the correct audience, the parents and retailers need to do the same.

"Teens admit to playing 18 certificate game while underage: Parents up before beek on charges of irresponsibility and criminal negligence".

If only....

A petrol bomb is nice and simple, a bottle full of petrol with a rag in it. Molotov's are petrol + <Redacted :) > mixed up with a rag in the top.

Molotov's are much nastier!

If you believe that FileSharers deserve the same punishment as Peado's you are a complete and total Moron!

If they're going to claim they learnt to do it from GTA, they should expect to be dealt with the same way. Get more than a "3 star" rating, which I would assume would be the fire-bombing of their 3rd or 4th car, and the police would turn up and riddle them with bullets.

What did they expect? That's what happens in the game. Then they could reload from the last save-point...

Flame icon, for obvious reasons.

Molotov Cocktails...

Fire-bombings...

Georgia...

Sounds like even the Russians got their initial bombing co-ordinates from Wikipedia and these poor kids are just the scapegoats!

Not doing too well recently...

Mine's the one with the Googel emblem on the back

Can you imagine what they would have done if they had watched McGuyver!!!

So GTA or whatever the dangerous game of the time is, is the new "big boys did it.." excuse.

And Mike, I think you might find it is the Righty god botherers who are more inclined to use this as an excuse than the lefty tree huggers..

involves little more than "get bottle, fill with flammable liquid stuff, stick rag in top to act as wick, leave rag to soak up some vapour, ignite rag, throw". Pretty simple, really.

Not exactly showing them anything that you'd not see on the news now is it? If they'd found a number of spinning bottles after breaking a crate in a back-street with a single well-aimed punch and then used them you could see the similarities.

If these kids are so easily influenced they should probably be locked up, whether they're entirely responsible for their actions or otherwise; they're a genuine and immediate danger to society. Start introducing that angle into legal cases and watch the number of "GTA made me do it, your Honour" cases tumble.

Also, they shouldn't have been playing GTA and probably shouldn't have been buying lighter fluid either.

...and if anything it would put me off ever trying to make a petrol bomb.

The amount of times I've set my main character alight by accident using them definitely discourages me from trying this in real life...

I dont really get how you could "learn" to make them... you pretty much just have to see one to understand it

In that way I was taught to make them at school in history lessons. Shocking

After playing the game for 15 or so hours straight it's hard to drive normally. I just want to go flat out and run over mopeds!

Pah! There's much better info to be gleaned from action movies! I think the original Die Hard has some great lessons for us all.

My guess is that their barrister is advising them to blame their actions on the game (which they were too young to be playing), as a sort of "diminished responsibility" plea. Which sounds like an excellent idea; and surely, if their responsibility was diminished, the most logical thing to do then is to remove them forthwith to the kind of environment where they will never, ever have to take responsibility for any of their actions again.

...Bush invaded Iraq 'cos he saw it in a game.

Mind you, Tiddlywinks has obviously got a lot more dangerous than when I was an ankle-biter.

Like others, I too learned how to make molotovs studying a book during my school days. I think we should ban books.

I thought the boy from Thailand killed someone because his parents would not buy GTA for him.

It's simple, the game has an 18 certification, blame the fat parents.

Flame, well, it's obvious isn't it?

Dunno what Mike's ranting about socialists for - it's usually right-wing reactionary rags like the Daily Mail screaming about GTA et al.

Second that "learnt from the game" nonsense, though. I've played nearly all the GTA games, and I've never seen anything even close to instructions for making petrol bombs.

Just a small point, but most of the propaganda regarding video games and their influence on the children tends to come from right wing bible bashers, rather than left wing tree huggers. Please get your lazy stereotypes correct in future.

Some Mid.Atlantic_Island@nowhere.com was entirely crime free as regards burglaries and robberies but then some fool imported a stack of videos.

Soon they had a crime wave.

When and where was that?

Sociologists are seeing a large rise in the number of children born and raised in trailer parks becoming Mormons as reality changes to accommodate infuriated video gamers insistence that your environment has no effect on your actions.

(yes I know people should take responsibility for their actions and I am sure you all do, but some of you must have worked in a hell desk and realized that not everyone in the world is as bright as you)

That is the FIRST time I've EVER heard the Daily Mail and its readers called "tree-hugging hippies".

You really just wanted an excuse to blame someone with ideals you don't like, don't you? Just like the daily mail wants to blame everyone.

I think you missed the subtle ironic dig at the way certain industries are trying to criminalize file sharing. I don't think file sharing is bad, and my entire prior post was full of sarcastic remarks at the sheer lunacy of the idea of GTA4 being the reason these kids decided petrol bombing cars was fun.

It is little bastards like these that get games banned for everyone else.

"I mean, if Pac-Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms, munching pills, and listening to repetitive music" - sorry it is an old one.

I'd imagine they were more likely to have gotten their instructions from Wikipedia. There's a pretty detailed article on there; I didn't realise that the original molotov cocktail used storm matches instead of a rag wick as the fuse, for example. Very interesting.

And you might find this hard to credit, but it turns out they were being used more than fifty years before the very first GTA game was released. In fact, I remember footage from my youth of petrol bombs being used in Northern Ireland, Brixton, Toxteth and any number of other places. This was when computer games consisted of guiding a blocky horace down a blocky ski slope, so it's unlikely they were to blame then.

This is scapegoatse of the lowest order.

their clearly forcing their kids to blacken the name of video games. As it happens I learned to make petrol bombs from the news and I learned to disable nuclear bombs off the internet! How's that for a slice of life?

In the 70s/80s we had proper petrol bombing in Norn Iron.

I guess they must have learned it all from attack of the mutant camels.

It's time to ban VGA cards, we never had sex and violence in the time of Leisure Suit Larry and EGA.

... Molotov Cocktails from my mum... yep seriously.

But quite aside from that, does anyone seriously believe had these kids never seen GTA that they would not have gone and done something different but equally dumb?

My mates and I when I was that age used to make bombs (again kid you not, custard powder, wonderful stuff) but we used to climb over the wall into a derelict and disused municipal graveyard and let them off in there (well after the first one was let off in the back garden, decided never to do that again).

Obviously in today's freaky everyones a terrorist times kids are better off with Molotov cocktails than bombs (I'd opt for local police and courts over anti-terrorist police and Guantanamo Bay any day) but still, these idiots burned out cars and peoples property... we (my mates and I) disturbed a few dead people and some local wildlife.

Sorry, much as I personally don't like GTA (any more than I like Sims) it did not teach these kids to be malicious even if they lifted ideas from it on how to be malicious.

Paris because she makes me explode.

too right MrM filesharers really should get extra time added on

Real headline should read "Teens blame GTA when they're caught in hope of escaping punishment".

Or, to put it another way - headlines from the past:

1998: "Teens admit to Internet chatroom-inspired petrol bombfest"

1988: "Teens admit to video nasty-inspired petrol bombfest"

1978: "Teens admit to punk music-inspired petrol bombfest"

1968: "Teens admit to comic book-inspired petrol bombfest"

1958: "Teens admit to rock 'n roll-inspired petrol bombfest"

Nothing changes. Which is a shame because if the media started actually reporting the reality of life instead of headline-grabbing lies, people might get inspired to tackle the real issues. Oh well, I can dream can't I?

At home, watching BBC News, aged about 8. It was kicking off in Ireland, and the new report showed men throwing milk bottles with a burning rag in the top. When they hit the floor, fire spread out across the floor; at the same time the news reader said that people were throwing petrol bombs. I was one of the brighter kids at school, granted, but it wasn't hard to figure out what was going on.

So, if I go on a rampage, do I blame BBC News or whatever Irish paramilitary group it was? Or the news reader for connecting the dots in my head? Stupid.

Oh, and @Mike: Aim your vitriol at the correct group next time please. We're talking about Deep South of the US here, a place populated in its entirety by the polar opposite of who you want to blame. (And I think you might be confusing our current administration with socialists - you're an order of country miles wide of the mark!)

...because I watch MacGyver.

"Lock the Scum bags up with the pedo's, file shares, and murder's and throw away the key"

are you now putting "file shares" - you mean users of p2p, certainly, because otherwise you'd be in the category yourself - on the same level as homicide, paedophilia and vandalism / terrorism ?

tell you what, since these guys are obviously f....rigging idiots (the molotov bombers, not the 4 groups above), why not solve all the problems of the world at once and lock up any and all idiots ? I might be willing to consider it, but be aware that you'd obviously be included in this category also.

as proof, the words you are looking for are "sharers", "pedos" or "paedos" and "murderers" you fscking idiot.

I was nine, but got it from the same source.

Then my Da (ex british army) informed me how they were properly made.

There is no lighter fuel in them, so I don't see how these kids got instructions *from anywhere* for their rampage.

Anyways, immediately after that I was arrested for demolishing my entire school, brick by brick, with a tennis ball.

Y'see, there was this game called "breakout"...

;-)

Posting this story forced me to buy GTA and go on a rampage.

... they were listening to Marilyn Manson at the time.

Sensationalist bullshit.

@Mike: Re: tree-hugging lefties.

Pardon? I think you're a little mixed up about who's been complaining. It's your own kind -- people who hate others -- that are complaining, mate.

As for the game providing details on how to make one, I suppose it does, really. Given that it's obvious. Heck, this article provides details on how to make one. Three components: a container that shatters upon impact, an explosive liquid, and a flammable material which may be used to loosely stopper e.g. a bottle. Only someone with the intelligence of a tree would be unable to assemble those into a petrol bomb.

The funny thing is that these criminals were close to that kind of intelligence. They *bought* the materials. Not only that, but they bought lighter fluid, rather than siphoning petrol from one of the vehicles they burned.

I wonder how people in the third world manage to produce violent individuals without widespread game console usage?

as well as taking out drug dealers and other assorted scum. Comic books and Batman made me do it!

These young men, being in their mid teens, may indeed be smart enough to know how to elude their parents. They may have gotten their copy of GTA4 through lesser-known means, such as flashing a fake ID, enlisting the aid of a legal-age friend or relative (say, a friend in college who would want the game anyway), or stealing it.

So remember, before blaming the parents, ask yourself, "What if the kid is smarter than the parents?" Because if this is true, then all bets are off when it comes to control.

Let's face it GTA is a horrible game, and just like media it does influence teenage to do anti-social thing. I am not saying these kids shouldn't be punishing -- assuming they committed this crime. Nonetheless, game is horrible.

Isn't amusing how Sony always come up with something public will hate? Remember it was Sony promoting this stupid game all over the city -- at least here in Toronto. So much so that pastors start protesting shouting against it "Gays are O.K. GTA is not!”

I learned how Molotovs were made from watching them on the TV news many years ago. Never made one though.

I'd never heard of Molotov cocktails until I read about them here. Now if I firebomb something can I blame the Reg?

Did you guys ever wonder what the other ingredient in the 'cocktail' is?

Video game ratings have no enforcement other than a retailers moral conscience .Same thing with movies unless it has porn in it . For some reasons they enforce the ratings on movies but not games.

Ahem its game over for them. They most likely will be tried as adults. They will be facing both state and federal charges > now the feds might not decide to charge them. Funny how you can be tried by the state then the feds for the same crime.

... is a sucker. I'm a therapist, and I see 15 - 30 kids a week with conduct disorders, oppositional defiant disorders, ADHD, etc. Every one of them has an excuse when you ask them, "Why'd you do that?" And not a single answer is the truth, if you're the one about to enforce a punishment. I had a kid actually tell me, "The Devil made me do it," last week... and start claiming that he heard voices and was psychotic. The psychotic one was his mom who believed his lyin arse. Hell, I'd lie to you too if you had complete control of my life... it'd be in my best interest! To all the people asking these kids, "why?" you're asking the wrong person... all you have to do is trust your gut and look inward. Why would you torch a bunch of cars? Because it'd be fun, it'd be an adrenaline rush, because it's my teacher's car and I hate her, because all these stupid rich punks think they run my life... whatever the reason, it doesn't matter. What matters is what they did, how you're going to respond, how they got to the point where they completely disregard the value of property and demonstrated a complete lack of empathy and connection with other humans, aside from their little gang of hoodlums.

If it's not too late, then giving these kids a dose of reality will straighten them back up... but shield them from the consequences, and well... we all know what happens to them.

>"There has been so much propaganda by tree-hugging lefties each time these games come out about the "somebody think of the children" aspects of the game"

Are you on acid or what? If you call Jack Thompson and his like in the christian-fundamentalist-moral-majority-scare-crusade "tree-hugging lefties", you really have to be living on planet Loopynuts-gaga-kerplunk-kerplunk-whoops-wheres-my-thribble.

>"the lefties get their extra nail in the coffin of freedom (ironic really, that the socialists want to put so many dictatorial controls on us)."

Ah, if only you weren't insane, you'd have realised that the apparent contradiction means one of your premises must be incorrect.

"Three US teenagers who recently went on a Molotov Cocktail crime spree claim to have perfected their weapons manufacturing skills by playing the Grand Theft Auto games."

These guys must be real geniuses to have to learn that from GTAIV.

-> the fumey one with the strip of cloth torn from the hem

No one ever goes on a Wii Sports Rampage do they...

Pairs - no reason.

Um retard, since when did Sony create the game? You are so thick one would think you come from the US.

As for the story, I blame Walmart, what the fuck are they doing selling kids bottles, wicks and lighter fluid. As if that doesnt ring alarm bells.

- Place petrol in bottle (Hint: 95 unleaded works as well as expensive lighter fluid).

- Place rag in petrol

- Light and fling

You do not need a 30 quid video game to teach this.

...I learned how by watchin' Macbeth

Well if it did have a influence (Which i doubt) guess were ok as most people played GTA4 for a few days and then realised its a overhyped, overrated game thats a identical clone of its predecessors with mildly better graphics.

Whenever I tried to use one, it set my charactor alight!

Paris, because she's probably also rubbish at GTA IV.

But thats down to most people being freaking idiots!

And these idiots are the kind I'm on about.

Idiot- "oh sorry I cant take responsibility for my actions because I was playing a computer game, thats why I should be allow to burn your car and get away with it!"

Me- "oh thats ok, I was watching the God Father last night so I'm going to shoot you in the face!"

*\. Mines the one with the really long enemies list in the pocket.

Is it just me, or is anyone else thinking; 'Who on earth sold these young kids lighter fuel?' Surely there is a minimum purchase age for it in the US? Furthermore, didnt the cashier start to think 'gee, what do all these kids want with lighter fluid, bottles and red rags?'

And furthermore - where were the parents when the kids were planning this? Or preparing their deadly payload?

Kids are like naughty puppies, if you let them get away with it they will do it. Supervision is needed, not constant supervision, just common sense, which is rather lacking in todays 'Caution, this packet of nuts may contain nuts!' world.

Its not GTA's fault, its the kids and the parents fault. But it still doesnt stop GTA being the same rehashed game with the same gameplay and ideas of five years ago, talk about flogging a dead donkey... Now if they were to make it totally open ended so that you could either gun down whores on 54th street or hand out bread in a soup kitchen...that would be a game!

To expand on what "kain preacher" said, in the US game ratings aren't required (legally, though they are by many retailers) or taken very seriously in general. Also the highest rating games normally get here is "M" (Mature) which is recommended for 17+ but again that rating has no legal force many people would let a 15 year old play one. There is also an "Ao" (Adults Only) rating which would technically be the equivalent of 18+, but is used almost exclusively for pornographic games. (Or more accurately, is hardly ever used, since there's not much point in having such games rated.) Though you may recall that a previous edition of GTA temporarily got that rating during the Hot Coffee scandal, until they could remove the offending content.

Your right i did miss that, sorry mate!

What do you call the Olympics?

>> Who should be held accountable for letting their underage children

>> play an 18 cert game.

That's right because a sixteen year-old is so impressionable that they will play a computer game and then get the idea that it is okay to go rampages ?!? WTF? Blame the parents' by all means, but do so for their complete failure to impart an morals, rather than for allowing them to play a game.

You might also want to blame the person who sold them the fuel. It might have escaped your attention, but computer games don't really blow things up, to do that you need fuel or explosives.

Before anyone says it, I know that 16 year-olds are allowed to drive in the US and would need access to fuel - however that just adds to the stupidity. The idea that somehow these kids are responsible enough to be in charge of a 1 ton killing machine but are too impressionable to play a computer game without parental supervision (it is ESRB M rated in the US - i.e. 17+ unless supervised) is just plain bonkers.

In other news, I just read the story about the iPhone hacking site set up to rip people off - ergo I am now going to have to do the same thing myself.

There's no instructions in GTA you just pick them up, Rockstar should sue

Where's Marilyn Manson when you need someone to blame?